Curse

Ender Ward · Sep 17, 2005, 07:34 PM // 19:34

... that we have a skill called "Tiger's Fury" that's linked to the Beast Mastery attribute. Instead of having a skill called "Fury" that does the same thing and is linked to the Expertise attribute (or perhaps Wilderness Survival)

.

No other character class is basically forced to invest attribute points in a line for no other benefit whatsoever, other than to get access to a single (pretty much required) skill.

rii · Sep 17, 2005, 07:37 PM // 19:37

You dont need that many points in to be effective to be frank. If your pushed..... dont have any. There are other things in beast mastery that are good, but agreed this is the best.

JYX · Sep 17, 2005, 07:46 PM // 19:46

I don't understand. Thats the trade-off you get for having it. Most classes don't have this "essential" skill at all. You don't like it...don't take it.

eg. wtf does monk have no e management>?!? i gots to invest in inspiration/blood to get my e management...e management is essential. I wanna have badass offering/drain in DIVINE FAVOR so I don't have to spread my attributes.

...makes no sense

Ender Ward · Sep 18, 2005, 12:40 AM // 00:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by rii

You dont need that many points in to be effective to be frank.

Can't really agree with this. If your Tiger's Fury lasts less than 8 seconds (6 ranks + minor rune), then you might as well switch to warrior secondary and take Frenzy instead. 5-7 second lasting Tiger's Fury is just not energy efficient. It also leaves you with a 3 second downtime when you attack as slow as a molass. Problem is, often you need a secondary other than Warrior.

And ofcourse for any Ranger worth his salt, going in without Tiger's Fury or Frenzy is a crime, IMO.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Everous

eg. wtf does monk have no e management>?!? i gots to invest in inspiration/blood to get my e management...e management is essential.

Peace and Harmony, Aura of Faith, Divine Spirit, Signet of Devotion and Blessed Signet are Divine Favour based energy management, an attribute that any Monk worth his salt will be investing into.
Most PvP Rangers, however, would never put a single point into Beast Mastery if it didn't contain Tiger's Fury.

But wait, that's not all.

Glyph of Leser Energy and Glyph of Energy are energy management tools for a Prot Monk. No investment required into anything to use them to full effectiveness.

What is the Ranger's alternative, without investing into Beast Mastery? Lightning Reflexes (*shudder*).

Quote:

I wanna have badass offering/drain in DIVINE FAVOR so I don't have to spread my attributes.

See above.

Esrever · Sep 18, 2005, 03:17 AM // 03:17

I beleive the reason its not linked to expertise is that it would be stupidly effective. Since any good ranger is going to have 13 or 14 expertise, Tiger's Fury could be up all the time for a low cost. The points from Beastmastery could be used elsewhere, making the Ranger more powerful.

stokey · Sep 18, 2005, 09:55 AM // 09:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ender Ward

Peace and Harmony, Aura of Faith, Divine Spirit, Signet of Devotion and Blessed Signet are Divine Favour based energy management, an attribute that any Monk worth his salt will be investing into.
Most PvP Rangers, however, would never put a single point into Beast Mastery if it didn't contain Tiger's Fury.

But wait, that's not all.

Glyph of Leser Energy and Glyph of Energy are energy management tools for a Prot Monk. No investment required into anything to use them to full effectiveness.

What is the Ranger's alternative, without investing into Beast Mastery? Lightning Reflexes (*shudder*).

First off, the glyphs are elementalist skills. I know they don't require any investment but that's analagous to the frenzy example. Of the so-called energy management skills tied to divine favor that you listed, I only see blessed signet as really useful and that's only for prot monks who maintain enchants. Peace and Harmony just doesn't get you energy. It's more of a waste of a skill slot imo. I don't know why you put divine spirit there. Look at the recharge. Signet of devotion has a long cast time for a low heal. It doesn't get the inherent effects of divine boon. I say it's the inexperienced monk's heal.

Loquetus · Sep 18, 2005, 01:33 PM // 13:33

actually signet of devotion is a great heal
it has a few downsides:
long prep time (easy to interupt)
and healing is moderate

pro's:
requires no energy what so ever
=>allows you to heal when an energy denial memser is at work
pretty fast recharge (for a signet it has rea
backfire/soul leach etc aren't triggered by signet of devotion (i think, not 100% certain)

blessed signet is only really usefull in certain builds (excellent in combo with signet of devotion imho)

divine spirit is indeed a waist of a skill slot cause of the recharge time imho

Arcador · Sep 18, 2005, 04:43 PM // 16:43

About the ranger - try using Lightning reflexes, not as much duration as the Tiger's but it is expertise based. I use it and with shortbow it can deliver rapidfire.

JYX · Sep 18, 2005, 08:53 PM // 20:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ender Ward

And ofcourse for any Ranger worth his salt, going in without Tiger's Fury or Frenzy is a crime, IMO.

Yessir...My energy drain ranger could really use faster attack speeds as opposed to more debil shots from Serpent's. Arrest me now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ender Ward

Peace and Harmony, Aura of Faith, Divine Spirit, Signet of Devotion and Blessed Signet are Divine Favour based energy management, an attribute that any Monk worth his salt will be investing into.

Peace and Harmony: one more pip in an enchant...on a monk...with a massive cooldown...for the inability to cast signets. Why don't they just hang me now. You want an equal to that? Use lightning reflexes.

Aura of Faith: passive e management. Like telling someone to use a prep instead of TF. btw. use a prep.

Signet of Devotion: Now we're getting somewhere...but you can't use that without becomming a bonder...or...a mending/live vicariously spammer O.o;. I don't see how thats different to you saying TF is not possible with a no pet ranger.

Oh btw. Prot monks don't necessarily need to have Favor...it just helps. Esp bonders don't need it...unless they got active prot too in which case they need it for Signet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ender Ward

But wait, that's not all.
Glyph of Leser Energy and Glyph of Energy are energy management tools for a Prot Monk. No investment required into anything to use them to full effectiveness.

A ranger dosen't need any points to use Frenzy effectively either. Whats your point? BTW. Just as a tip...never...ever...be a mo/e to use the glyphs of energy. ever. Don't do it.

Kaospryx · Sep 18, 2005, 09:10 PM // 21:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Everous

Signet of Devotion: Now we're getting somewhere...but you can't use that without becomming a bonder...or...a mending/live vicariously spammer O.o;. I don't see how thats different to you saying TF is not possible with a no pet ranger.

I'm not sure I see your point here. You don't need why you need to bond/mend/live vicariously for this to be effective. Perhaps you confused this with blessed signet?

Signet of devotion is a 2 sec, 5 recharge time heal based on the DF line. I believe it heals for about 80 with 15-ish divine favor, but you do not get the actual passive divine favor bonuses. It is a great energy management skill because it requires no energy whatsoever. You do not need to use maintained enchantments for this to be effective.

Teh Azman · Sep 19, 2005, 02:08 AM // 02:08

If they did change it to this, it WOULD hurt some people/builds, I for example rely on being able to put points into best mastery for this on my frag Me/R (I swear I made it up before they were popular) that I still have fun using in pVe, the build relies on having NO points in wilderness, and I can't use expertise. And yes, I prefer having mesmer as primary so I can do more damage in a shorter amount of time.

I guess if they added a skill, sure I'd be okay with it, just PLEASE DON'T CHANGE TIGERS FURY!

Arcador · Sep 19, 2005, 05:53 AM // 05:53

They wont change the Tiger from beast mastery, cuz it will overwhelm Lightning reflexes from expertise which I don't see why people don't use if they don't want to put pts in beast mastery. Lightning reflexes is good skill - especially when you put your shorbow, jump in the melee (because of the short range of the bow) and put some punch on their casters taking in mind you will evade the next 4-5 melee attacks.

JYX · Sep 19, 2005, 09:08 AM // 09:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaospryx

I'm not sure I see your point here. You don't need why you need to bond/mend/live vicariously for this to be effective. Perhaps you confused this with blessed signet?

Signet of devotion is a 2 sec, 5 recharge time heal based on the DF line. I believe it heals for about 80 with 15-ish divine favor, but you do not get the actual passive divine favor bonuses. It is a great energy management skill because it requires no energy whatsoever. You do not need to use maintained enchantments for this to be effective.

Semi. I started with a point and lost myself half way through. You do need either maintained enchantments or Aegis to use this without breaking out in cold sweat. To be quite honest with you...the Heal Per Second is bad, awful. Unless you got something like the bonds going, or aegis put down, someone's gonna die while you're fiddling with this. Even then...its iffy.

Basically I didn't wanna make the point about passive E management again so I thought I'd try something new...but fair enough that is disputable and convoluted.